The Center for Human Rights at the Catholic University of America has recently published an op-ed by Chen Guangcheng commemorating the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre. To view this article, check the link in the description or go to humanrights.catholic.edu.
Will Deatherage: Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of The Barefoot Lawyer Reports on China. My name is Will Deatherage, the producer. Joining me as always is Chen Guangcheng.
Chen Guangcheng: Hello everyone. Hi, Will. I’m glad to be here today.
W: Yeah, so we have some very concerning news coming out of China right now regarding one of Guangcheng’s good friends who we’ve talked about previously on the podcast. Guangcheng, before you explain what’s going on to him, could you tell us a little bit about this man, who he is and what he’s done?
G: Today I will talk about my friends, the human rights lawyers, Li Heping, Li Baiguang, and the Li Subin. Since 2003 when I stood up to do the human rights work, they helped me a lot. And we worked together to protect the human rights.
W: Yeah, they were fellow lawyers, right, Guangcheng?
G: Yeah, they are, they are lawyers. Of course, the CCP arrested them very quickly, and since we came here to the United States, my friend Li Subin, he came to New York to visit me in 2012.
And after that, just a little later, 2014, he died. And the doctor found that the problem [was] his liver; liver cancer.
W: Gotcha.
G: Later, six years ago, Lee Baiguang died because of liver cancer, too. They have the same experience in black jail.
W: And black jail, for those who are new to the podcast, is basically an illegal prison, right, Guangcheng?
G: Yes, yes. The CCP can make any place become the black jail to arrest the people or to torture the people…
W: Like hotel rooms, right? And…
G: Yeah, hotel room and basement room and military’s basement.
And, yeah, so my good friend, Li Heping, they put him in black jail [for] more than one year, and he said the CCP made him take a special medicine.
But we don’t know what it is, of course. But after he ate the medicine, he feel his head become bigger and bigger.
W: Yeah, like, swollen maybe?
G: Yeah, like swollen feel[ing], but not real swollen, but feels bigger and bigger. And his vision would be blurred. And he felt very anxious.
W: Okay.
G: Yeah. After the CCP released him, we can see all his hair became white.
W: And what year was that, Guangcheng, when he was released? What
G: 2019.
W: 2019? So how many years had he been in black jail?
G: Almost two years.
W: So in the span of two years, all his hair had turned white because of all the stress. Is that right?
G: Yes, yes. He said every day they [is], you know, they made him eat the medicine. And tortured him. Another friend told me a story. [The] CCP put him in black jail [for] more than two months. Of course CCP tortured him a lot. Sometimes four or six soldiers opened the door and came in. They didn’t say any words, and they just took all his clothes away and beat him.
And, of course, every day the CCP prepared the food for them. They were bringing seven boxes of food, but he had found only one. They put a vegetable on the box. And the thugs always take that one for him.
W: So there were seven boxes for the thugs and for him, right?
G: Yes. Seven boxes, for him and the six thugs. But one was specially marked for him.
W: Gotcha, okay.
G: Yeah. So one day he said he took another one on purpose. He didn’t take the marked one. And another thug said, “Oh, this is not for you.” And the thug that took the marked one, gave it to him: “This is yours.”
W: Yeah, they were putting something in his food, it sounds like.
G: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think the CCP put some special poison or something in that food.
W: Right.
G: But if you open the box to see the food, [it’s] not very different. Similar with the thugs’ foods.
So when he talked to me about this, I think, “Oh, my friend Li Subin and Li Baiguang died because they all had the same experience in black jail, or in real jail.”
W: So you’re saying that they had, they also had specially marked food for them?
G: They didn’t tell me about this, but if the CCP puts someone in jail or black jail, [it’s] very easy to give them the special food, right?
W: So the one with the specially marked food, have they fallen sick at all because of it or not, nothing yet or…
G: Until now, he is okay, but someone in jail or in black jail, including the person who got the Nobel Award, Liu Xiaobo; he died in jail. The same problem, the liver cancer. The activists think the CCP put some special thing [in the food] to make that happen.
W: To give them liver problems, yeah?
G: Yeah.
W: Because you’re saying that the other two human rights activists you were talking about also mysteriously suffered liver problems later, right?
G: Yes, yes.
W: And what about Li Heping, was he one of them
G: Until now, Li Heping, you know, [it’s] very difficult to go the hospital to check. Even if he went to the hospital to do the healthcare, the doctor always tells him everything’s good. Before, the CCP beat my friend and had broken his ribs, and he went to the hospital in Beijing to check, but someone in the CCP special police called them to tell the hospital, “Everyone is okay.” So later, they found a way to go to another city to check and to take an X-ray, they found seven ribs broken.
So, I worry [about] my friend Li Heping. He still lives in Beijing. No way to know the truth.
W: Right.
G: So, I just want to let our listeners know, under the authoritarian regime, the CCP [does] not just arrest, not just torture, right? The CCP is using [their] enemies to try to kill them or to destroy their health.
W: Because how many cases of liver failure did you say you’ve seen come out of people who were in prison, Guangcheng?
G: Until now we know, you know, Li Baiguang and Li Shubin, and Liu Xiaobo died in prison.
And another friends, including my good friend whose name is Hu Xia, still in Beijing. The CCP put him in prison [for] more than three years.
He has the liver problem now.
W: So, all these people you mentioned have been suffering from liver problems after they were released from black jail or prison, right, Guangcheng?
G: Yes, yes.
W: Wow.
G: Yeah. Some people we don’t know, you know. Maybe they have the problem [and] we don’t know, right?
W: Right. But they’ve all been, like, fed mysterious food or medicine, right?
G: Yes, yes.
W: Yeah, I mean this is beyond just, you know, standard torture for information. This is literally ruining their entire lives,
G: Yeah.
W: Yeah. Well, we’ll continue to follow these reports, especially if your friend in prison who you’ve asked to remain anonymous… And yeah, Guangcheng, we appreciate you sharing all these horrifying things. And we ask for the people who listen to this podcast to share it with others.
Share us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and Substack, and all our other social media platforms. And Guangcheng, thank you very much for giving us all this information.
G: Thank you, Will. Thank you everyone. Let’s work together to fight CCP.
The Catholic University of America’s Center for Human Rights has published a documentary on the United Nations Universal Declaration on Human Rights. The documentary features world-class human rights experts from former State Department officials, to ambassadors and human rights activists. It can be found on our website at humanrights.catholic.edu.