The following is part three of a Barefoot Lawyer Reports on China interview with Frances Hui by William Saunders, Director of the Center for Human Rights. To listen to other parts of this podcast, please check the link in the description.

Bill Saunders: Like you said before, of course everybody should be a kind, loyal citizen of their country, but that doesn’t mean being quiet about human rights abuses. And we look at history for instance in the United States, nobody would advocate that the Catholic Church should have been quiet about the legal discrimination against black people that was here in the fifties. So the Church has to be able to speak up whenever it sees injustice. That’s the prophetic role of the Church. Of course, the Catholics are loyal citizens, but the government has to reciprocate by acting justly. So let me ask you, Frances, what would you hope that could be done at this point? What do you hope the US could do to help the people in Hong Kong?

Frances Hui: Well, I think the very bare minimum is to prioritize advocacy for religious freedom and the release of prisoners of conscience in Hong Kong in all diplomatic engagements with Hong Kong and Chinese counterparts. I think the administration has to be more direct and to give a more robust response on the things happening in Hong Kong. Article 23, it’s a great threat to freedom in Hong Kong. I would argue that it’s even more egregious than the national Security Law that was implemented in 2020. The US Congress Administration, they all should prioritize advocacy, Hong Kong, and the prisoners in Hong Kong calling for the release and in particular of, talk about religious freedom in their diplomatic engagement with China.

There’s other things that the US can do. For example, it has all it has the rights and their tools under its disposal to impose sanctions on people in Hong Kong that are responsible for violating human rights in Hong Kong. So the U.S. should also make full use of this sanctioned tool to hold bad actors accountable for their violation of religious freedom. This is not something that they have thought about; they haven’t imposed any sanctions regarding Hong Kong in the past two years and it’s just been sitting there. No one has been held accountable. We really need to respond and have a robust response, and this is one of the options that they can use.

I think the religious communities and religious leaders, I would recommend that they develop an advisory board of its own with experts on China’s affairs to better understand the development on the ground of religious persecution in Hong Kong and China. Um, I know that the Holy See actually has a commission set up by Pope Benedict XVI in 2007 to advise the Vatican on relations with China, which Cardinal Zen was part of. But the body hasn’t convened under Pope Francis, and the Vatican policy toward China has been plainly led by Vatican officials. I think we could all be better informed by the commission members and people who actually understand what’s happening on the ground, who have firsthand knowledge and extensive connections with the faithful in China.

I think that’s also the first step that they can take at this point; speak up on the threats to religious freedom in Hong Kong and resist being complicit with the Chinese government in supporting our own religious values and in our faith. These would be the kind of the recommendations that I would make to really like global religious leaders, not just the Vatican, not just Pope Francis, but also applying to other religious leaders around the world.

Bill Saunders: Yep. I would say anybody listening should just think about it. If you’re a Catholic in your Catholic school, or if you’re a Protestant or whatever, some other faith, what would it be like if these kinds of things were happening in your school or in your church? Imagine these kinds of things happening. So the listener can hopefully put themselves in the shoes of people who are suffering under this. And we can see the trajectory for Hong Kong by what’s happened on the mainland. It’s important to stand up for injustices and I think everybody listening to this podcast would be committed to doing so.

So we have to have solidarity with the people in Hong Kong and we need to stand up for them. The only way to do it is through, or the most effective way is through our government. So all American citizens listening to this, you should tell your Congressman or woman that this is wrong; the US needs to do something. It’s your Congressman’s job to figure out what’s best to do. If you have ideas, you should tell them. But your main job as an American citizen is to tell them. This really matters to you, and let’s do something about it. Because the wheel is turning and it’s crushing down on freedom in China and Hong Kong.

Unless we do something about it, it will be snuffed out. It’s not a good idea to wait ten years and talk about what we should have done. The question is, what can you do now? And each of you listening can do something that’s speaking to your congressman or woman, write a letter, tell them to do something about what’s happening to religious faith and democracy in Hong Kong. Frances, do you have anything else you’d like to add?

Frances Hui: Well, I think you were absolutely right. As I said, religious freedom hasn’t been something that people have been discussing when they talk about Hong Kong, but the report that I put out in January and also another report published by Hong Kong Watch last year are ways for us to kind of surface that issue and to start the conversation, the discussion about the threats to religious freedom in Hong Kong. Ben Rogers and I, the author of the Hong Kong Watch Report, have talked about this. We said this is not a coincidence, because both of us see the problem evolving in Hong Kong and the international community should really pay attention to what the religious communities are facing right now.

And at this point, it’s still early. It’s at the early stage of CCP trying to take over the religious communities in Hong Kong. Perhaps there is something that we can do to kind of mitigate the risk and to slow down the process at least. To do that, we need to raise awareness and to bring it up to our government and to let them know that this is happening. Also share it with your friends at church. Maybe they would be interested to know, because injustice happening in Hong Kong and injustice happening in one place is injustice happening everywhere and we should as Christians and Catholics stand up for justice and to fight for religious freedom everywhere.

Bill Saunders: Yeah. For anybody who would like to see the report, you can find it “Hostile takeover, the CCP and Hong Kong’s religious communities”; if you go to the website, which is www.cfhk.org

Frances Hui: Yes. If you go onto our website, you will find the publication and the report posted there. It’s a really long, 55 page report, but it has really good stuff in it, so give it a review.

Bill Saunders: Yeah, and it has an executive summary, and it has an introduction and everything. You shouldn’t be intimidated to look at this; it’s pretty reader-friendly.

Frances Hui: Yes, thank you very much.

Bill Saunders: Okay, we’ll link these things to our podcast and repeat some of this information. I want to thank you for joining us for the Barefoot Lawyer Podcast, and I encourage you to keep fighting for religious freedom in Hong Kong.

Frances Hui: Thank you very much for inviting me.

The Catholic University of America’s Center for Human Rights has published a documentary on the United Nations Universal Declaration on Human Rights. The documentary features world class human rights experts, from former State Department officials to ambassadors and human rights activists. It can be found on our website at catholic.edu/chr